Buyback Denied - Beware of Demo Vehicles - Lemon Law Next

General Forum
1

Hi all,

I posted recently of my 6-month old 2023 F-150 transmission issues (currently 58 days or 42 business days in shop). I received some great encouragement & advice from many! Thanks again!

With this I worked up the nerve to call Ford on 11/22/24 and open a buyback case.

However, it was denied today, 11/27.

The reason: my case falls outside the lemon law requirements for buyback in KANSAS or MISSOURI because PART of the days out-of-service fall outside the 12 months of initial use.

I purchased this vehicle on 5/25/24. However, it was a loaner with 500 miles that went into service 10/30/23.

I’ve only owned it since May, but they are using the original date. Is this technically correct? Maybe.

However, this vehicle did not drive right since the day I drove it off the lot. I’ve tried to get it service several times since purchase, but the Microsoft Cloudstrike issues caused many issues in me getting it in (dealership was “down” forever).

In my opinion, this is total BS based on the timeline below for service.

Currently, it is sitting the shop since 11/4. They recently told me it would get a new torque converter, but then came back and said Ford will be sending a new tranny (new or rebuilt…not for sure).

I won’t get it back for another 1-2 weeks.

Purchased: 5/25/24

Oil Change + Requested Repair (During Microsoft Cloudstrike worldwide outage - could not work on vehicle in reasonable time)

  • Attempted to leave it for the shudder issue, but no loaners and could have taken weeks/months according to dealer
  • 7/12/13

Repair 1: Torque converter replaced & tranny rebuilt

  • 9/9/24 Dropoff
  • 9/30/24 Pickup
  • 21 (15 business days)

Repair 2: New tranny valve body and partial rebuild

  • 10/15/24 Dropoff
  • 10/29/24 Pickup
  • 14 (10 business days)

Repair 3: Current in pieces - either another new torque converter or possible new/rebuild transmission

  • 11/4/24 Dropoff
  • Sill in the shop….
  • 23 days as of 11/27/24 (17 biz days)

Currently 58 days in shop since purchase on 5/25/24

>>>Has anyone contested this type of case with a lemon law attorney? Any chances of getting this considered as a lemon?

Ultimately, I’d like a new vehicle. I want another similar F150. I love what it supposed to be. One that I can have more faith and trust with.

For those considering buying a “Demo”, consider that many legal rights & timelines may have started when the demo went into service; NOT when you purchased.

2

Lawyer

3

So they are aging the truck out based on mfg date? Or are they claiming the truck was sold “used” instead of “new with a demo/loaner classification”

4

Denver said:
So they are aging the truck out based on mfg date? Or are they claiming the truck was sold “used” instead of “new with a demo/loaner classification”

No, most lemon laws indicate there is a 12 month timeframe that a claim needs to be fulfilled. While my purchase date was of May of this year, they actually put the demo loaner vehicle into service October of last year. My 12 months based on the demo vehicle going into in service as a loaner at the dealer and not the day I bought it…

5

At least you guys have some buy back/ lemon law protection at all- we don’t have anything like that in Canada, and it’s a gamble buying a new car these days here. Brutal.

6

Jay said:
At least you guys have some buy back/ lemon law protection at all- we don’t have anything like that in Canada, and it’s a gamble buying a new car these days here. Brutal.

Wow, didn’t know that…that’s scary!

7

That sucks. Have they provided something for you to drive during those times?

8

Aldrin said:
That sucks. Have they provided something for you to drive during those times?

Yes, dealer has been great, fortunately! Although, the vehicles are nice, they are base models and not all trucks like I need.

9

@Uma
I bought a 23 demo too. Haven’t had the best luck but not near as bad as yours.

10

Not sure if your state lemon law allows fee shifting, but I went with a lawyer in my state. It certainly is possible to file the claim on your own, but if the manufacturer has to foot the bill by law, no reason not to get representation. If they agree to take on the case and fee shifting is allowed, you pay absolutely nothing and the manufacturer is incentivized to resolve the matter quickly.

If your state does not have fee shifting and you have some disposable income and you can find a good lemon lawyer, you could also consider talking to one to see if you have a case. Who knows, there could be other angles besides Lemon.

All states with lemon laws should have an information site the outlines exactly what is required to trigger lemon protections. Mine was I think 3 services visits for the same problem, or more than one visit for a serious safety issue, or more than 6 weeks in the shop or something like that (without a loaner being provided).

11

So no one’s going to say anything about the fact that a late model ford has a transmission issue? I mean, this is unheard of. This may be the first time I’ve ever read about a 10R80 trans problem. I’m just sitting here. Stunned. I’m going to the F150 forums and post all about this so everyone is aware that it can have an issue.

But seriously, sorry about your situation, OP. I’ve been down this road in a different state with different laws. Fortunately we reached an agreement that didn’t require them buying the car back. Either way it sucks to have to go through this. Hope it works out for you.

12

@Parker
I love the truck for everything it could be…like dating the girl I should stay away from…

13

@Parker
Manufacturing defects do happen. Sounds like they’re having issues finding the defect and blindly trying different things…

14

I thought lemon law only applied to new vehicle purchases.

15

Ellery said:
I thought lemon law only applied to new vehicle purchases.

It was considered new. It is common for dealers to use new vehicles as loaners. I’ve been driving them for 2 months. They generally sell them with only a few thousands miles.

16

If you bought it as a loaner, it is used in Fords eyes. The truck was punched when it was entered into loaner service, meaning you are technically the second owner. Most states do not have any lemon law in place on used vehicles. You could try consulting with a lemon law attorney and see what they say. At this point, if anyone is going to help, it would be on the dealership themselves, not Ford.

17

@Tal
Maybe this varies by state but this was absolutely not the case in my experience when I bought a previous FCTP vehicle while living in NC. The vehicle had ~1500 miles on it but when we signed the paperwork it was still considered a new car because it had never been registered before (only had dealer tags on it). Our warranty was 36,000 miles from when we signed the paperwork so it was under warranty for 3 years from DOS or until hitting ~37,500 miles. I almost bought an F150 FCTP truck in FL until I found my current truck and it looks like the situation is the same here.

All that being said I personally would stay away from FCTP vehicles because, like rental cars, people beat the hell out of them.

18

@Harper
My truck was a demo (not a courtesy loaner, but the GM of the dealership put 2,000 miles on it). I’m also in NC. I was informed the warranty was to 36,000 total miles, but the in-service date started with my purchase as the truck had obviously never been titled.

I didn’t really care since I was planning to purchase a Ford ESP anyway, which I did.

19

@Tal
Interesting, where do you see that? Everything I see on Google indicates that a new vehicle loaner can still be considered for lemon buyback.

20

Uma said:
@Tal
Interesting, where do you see that? Everything I see on Google indicates that a new vehicle loaner can still be considered for lemon buyback.

That’s at least how it was in my state when I sold a different brand. I know this specifically because if our store was one or two cars short of hitting our objective for the month, management would take a car or two and put them into loaner service to hit the objective. You need to consult a lemon law attorney, not google.